Compare and contrast

"Cé hé sin" (michael-m-mouse) 04/20/2020 at 15:20 • Filed to: Ford Focus, Ford Fiesta

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For the last month or so I was driving one of Mr Hertz’ Fiestas while my own car is sitting in a closed garage waiting to be fixed at some time when they’re allowed open.

As I’ve been able to drive nowhere except to the shop for the past two weeks I’ve handed the Fiesta back and borrowed my father’s Focus.

So, time to do a bit of comparing and contrasting of a Mk8 Fiesta and a Mk3 Focus.

This very Focus, in fact. The Focus as many know is a disaster because of the twin clutch gearbox and you can hardly give them away used. Hush. This isn’t America. We do manual Focuses and the automatic ones get the mo r e reliable wet clutch DCT anyway.

First, the engine. Down 100 cc on the Fiesta, same three cylinders but plus a turbo so 125 as opposed to 70 bhp. Happy times. I tried to explain to my father that the Focus has a smaller engine b ut gett ing on for twice the power which he found hard to grasp . Eve n with a couple of hundred extra kilos the Focus in noticeably quicker.

Next, gears. The Focus has 20% more of these. That’s good, right? Not to me. There are too man y bloody gears. The gate is very narrow so getting the desired first rather than third when moving off can be tricky.

The Focus gets Android Auto. It gives you Google Maps instead of the standard satnav but otherwise it doesn’t offer much. The in c ar version of Google Play gives little functionality and you can get phone functions via Bluetooth anyway.

Anything else? Well, the Focus gains climate control (because more upmarket model) but loses automatic lights (because older model).

I preferred the Fiesta for all that.

Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available > Cé hé sin 04/20/2020 at 15:31

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My friend has a manual Focus sedan much like that and it always seemed to be a good car, but it was stuck with the terrible older infotainment system. The build quality and interior design and materials in those was always lacking, though I’m not sure what the refresh did. That said, the idea of a 1 liter engine in the US at that time wa s ludicrous so we at least got a four cylinder.

But why do you prefer the Fiesta again?

Svend > Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available 04/20/2020 at 17:05

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Small engines are the thing. Large engines would see you being taxed to high heaven on the emissions.

That said, the idea of a 1 liter engine in the US at that time was ludicrous

The same engine in the Focus above was also available in the Ford Mondeo/U.S. Fusion (not U.K. Fusion which was a totally different thing).

Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available > Svend 04/20/2020 at 17:29

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My Cruze has a monstrous 1.8 liter engine (there was a 1.4 that made the same hp) making 138 bhp and it is kind of slow in a country that doesn’t have strict gas guzzler taxes.

EDIT: wait I still don't get why because a less stressed larger na engine can get better mgs under load in a heavy car.

I am just looking at the 2014 Ford Mondeo at the bottom there and am confused. That looks way older and worse than the Fusion we got here in the states. My brother has one and it isn’t exactly high quality but it looks and drives pretty good. And this design was around for a long time before his 2012. Why were they a separate thing until recently?

Svend > Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available 04/20/2020 at 18:49

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From our last three

That 2014 was in the last year of that generation.

Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available > Svend 04/20/2020 at 19:32

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So Sandy has some power but is also pretty heavy I guess. But that is the VW group too. I am always surprised how much better some of VW’s subsidiere s, especially Skoda but also SEAT on occasion, have much better styling than Volkswagen itselfs.

And the Fusion/Mondeo overlap I guess is from Ford globalizing it’s lineups and giving Ford UK more restrictions, which seemed to give you guys a more American Mondeo and give us a more European van in the form of the Transit, replacing the old truck based Econolines.

I still don’t get why the older Mondeo looks so different from the US Fusion. I think the old Fusion looks vastly better, but might the large amounts of chrome be chocked up to American tastes? What do you think of the looks of that Fusion?

I also bought a gallon of a very regional drink most people not brought up on it detest: Sweet Tea! You’d hate it.

Svend > Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available 04/20/2020 at 21:20

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The fifth gen was the second, one world, while the Fusion is 4 door only there, it’s 4 door, 5 door and estate here.

Though the 4 and 5 door are limited in certain specs.

4 door, ST-Line Edition, TiVCT, Titanium and Vignale.

5 door

estate

I guess the difference was just a Ford thing, the Focus is another one.

While the U.S. got this from 2008 to 2011.

during 2008 and 2011 we got.

Though it did get a facelift in 2011.

Your Ford Fusion of that period does look more American with the large amount of chrome for the grille.

I’m being lazy and ordered a take away, cheese burger, chips and gravy, four cans of cider and a cherry coke.

Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available > Svend 04/20/2020 at 22:36

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At least the cuisine is “American,” unlike your last at tempt which still makes me chuckle.

But wait wait wait wait wait you are saying that the mid 2010s Focus we got here like the one you borrowed was actually a heavily refreshed version of the earlier Focus we didn’t get?!?!?!?!? I’d always thought that mid 2000s Focus was brought over from Europe?!?!?! I mean they actually bothered with a wagon and the absurdly rare coupe versions for a North American only body?

But then they brought the refreshed alternate Focus over to replace it? The 90s gen was global so why did they revert to different designs afterwards?

And through this all those wagon versions of the Mondeo and Focus are like something out of a parallel dimension. That Mondeo wagon in particular just looks so strange. That Focus two door hatch also looks so familiar but yet so alien. It's a little strange that there are so many different body styles that never made it here since they already had the cost of designing them.

Svend > Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available 04/20/2020 at 23:35

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The Focus was designed by Ford Germany and U.K., as a replacement to the Ford Escort sold here, and released in 1998, North America in 1999.

I don’t know why North America went a different way.

Here we had gens and facelifts within each gen.

First gen, Mk1 ( 1998 - 2007) ,

facelift, Mk1.5 2005

Second Gen, Mk2 (2004 - 2011)

facelift, Mk2.5

Third Gen, Mk3 (2011 - 2018)

facelift, Mk3.5 2015

Fourth Gen, Mk4 (current)

Body styles that didn’t make it state side.

Ford Focus C-Max that would later be the Ford C-Max.

Focus with a higher roofline

Ford Focus CC (coupe cabrio)

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/news/8246138/Where-are-the-people-who-designed-the-original-Ford-Focus.html

Like Alec Issigonis’s Mini or Giorgetto Giugiaro’s Volkswagen Golf, the first Ford Focus changed the face of family motoring. The team behind the 1998 original has been scattered by the automotive four winds, but on the eve of the launch of the third Focus we set out to trace where they’re now working.

At the time the first Focus was being conceived, Ford had been run for years by accountants, who clung like shipwrecked sailors to the Ford family purse strings. Chief executive Jac Nasser, however, wasn’t family, had controversial long-term views about the company’s future and also understood the self-harming potential of products such as the woeful Mk5 Escort.

Ford’s engineers were in near revolt about the cost-cutting on that car. “Never again,” was the battle cry at its European development centres in Essex and Cologne, and by not slamming the door in their faces Nasser helped create the design and engineering hot-house that cultivated the Focus. Oddly, the car didn’t make as much money as it should have done, because Ford was overtaken by fashion, lacking the depth of a full model range in the face of the Renault Mégane Scenic-headed bandwagon of family hatchback MPV derivatives.

The man behind the Focus team was Richard Parry-Jones. “The original Focus programme demonstrated the value of being bold and taking some risks,” he says, “such as in strikingly original design, innovative packaging and unique suspension design – but it also showed the importance of fanatical attention to every detail.”

The design could never have been described as classic, but it was different from anything else and the package was practical and the finishing painstaking.

I quite like the Mondeo estate.

Though it’s not as big as Sandy.

Mondeo estate, 500 litre luggage capacity, Superb estate, 660 litres luggage capacity.

Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available > Svend 04/21/2020 at 01:06

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That is really interesting. I got confused at the second to third gen Focus transition but Ford did change most single body panels on the Gen 1.5 Fusion here, including major chassis and structure changes instead of designing a new one. I thought something like that had happened.

.

We actually did get the cmax here but only for one generation because no one bought this strangely proportioned wagon-minivan-thing. Is there a name for this body style?

And the Focus Cabrio looks really strange because the generations we did get stateside never had that body style. The only thing even close was the VW Eos and that didn’t sell well even without any direct competitors.

Man I really wish we still got the Focus even just as a plain old sedan and maybe a four door hatch if we are extra lucky. That market niche has been shrinking massively in players.

Svend > Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available 04/21/2020 at 01:41

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The Ford Focus C-Max was like the Renault Megane Scenic, after a few short years, it got it’s own name, the Renault Scenic, like the Scenic having a larger sister, the Grand Scenic, the C-May got a larger sister, the Grand C-Max.

The are collectively called MPVs here and some from smaller,

Ford B-Max,

Ford C-Max

Ford Grand C-Max

I like the party trick of the disappearing middle seat.

Then there’s the S-Max,

Then you’ve the van derived tourneos.

Ford Tourneo Courier

Ford Tourneo Connect,

Ford To urneo Grand Connect,

Ford Tourneo Custom short wheelbase,

Ford T ourneo Custom long wheelbase,

Then you’ve the Ford Tansit minibuses (I’m not sure if it’s anything larger than a 10 or 11 seater is classed as a minibus with different regs.

In short, medium and long wheelbases,

11 seats 

14 seat

17 seat

Cé hé sin > Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available 04/21/2020 at 08:17

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More compact which is handy as I’m only driving to supermarket car parks now, better gearchange where you can actually find the desired gear at the first time of asking.

Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available > Svend 04/21/2020 at 10:05

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You really bring up an interesting point; the US has an almost complete lack of small passenger vans. I think the smallest you can get here is the Transit Connect passenger van, but people would think you were a little strange for buying one. The C Max has long been discontinued and I never knew those other nearly identical models existed. The small van market isn’t nearly big enough to support that variety. I mean the Grand C Max, S Max, and B Max really don’t look all that different other than wheelbase and type of rear door, but I guess the larger ones have a third row.

Then there is also the Nissan NV200 but these are not very common. I don’t know if I’ve ever seen a passenger configuration but the taxis are popular in New York.

The next step up is a big one to a full sized minvan. These things are very comfortable but also pretty unruly.

Then you go to much larger vans. This Chevy Express van has been the default rental for almost 2 decades now without any major changes.

Then you have the strangely sized and unusually bulky Nissan full sized van, which is the biggest one sold here short of the Mercedes Sprinter (formerly sold under the Freight liner and Dodge brands) and the new Transit. All the wheelbases and roof variants are sold here so there are a lot more options now.

I know someone that has a full sized NV passenger van with the annoyingly long hood but I’ve never ridden in it. Looks absolutely immense for a daily driver, but they do tow with it too so I guess there’s that.

The nearest thing I can think of to that sort of compact premium not-a-minvan van sold here would be the old Chrysler Pacifica.

And the Mercedes R Class was similar but much more like an expensive wagon than a van.

In other words, we need more small vans but no one buys them so no one sells them.

Svend > Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available 04/21/2020 at 10:44

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The B-Max is now discontinued but the C-Max is just a five seater (so still just a Focus with more headroom) and the Grand C-Max is a seven seater.

C ar companies here offer more range to suit your needs or sway you into something more, over what you want. But in the most part people buy what they can afford that suits their needs that’s practical.

I don’t class it as an MPV unless it seats 7+.

For 7 setaers there’s quite a range.

After that, your just looking at vans with seats and interiors, then mini coaches and then coaches.

Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available > Svend 04/21/2020 at 11:02

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I just realized the B Max actually has no B pillar. So B Minus you might say. Or B Minimum.

MPVs are called minivans here so the B C and S Maxes would be vans, just compact vans that no one would buy. Minivans do usually seat 7 but I suppose that no other word describes the Transit Connect passenger.

There is a similar amount of variety in CUVs since that segment is competitive and over saturated. Goodness sakes nothing else can explain the Toyota CHR.

Svend > Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available 04/21/2020 at 11:21

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Oh ye’, CUVs and SUVs are another group altogether. While there is a massive range, VW/Audi Group (VW/Audi.SEAT/Skoda, not including the rest) have about 16 in their line up alone here. They only go up to 7 seat here .

Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available > Svend 04/21/2020 at 11:38

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I don’t know o f any SUVs that seat more than 7. It is really incredible how they can still make a profit with so many CUVs with only miniscule differences. The entry level CUVS in particular seem to just be plain bad. The Ford Ecosport specifically is wretched.

But full sized SUVs are a little more competitive here because you have your offroading class (Toyota 4Runner) and your soft roading full sized (Chevy Suburban) and at least one luxury variant of almost all them (Cadillac Escalade, GMC Yukon, all in two wheelbases) , essentially doubling the number. If the UK has a van for everything, we have either a pickup or an SUV for everything.

Still, the model range seems to be smaller in the US in general. Perhaps the cost of federalizing is higher despite the tests being less rigorous than the EU ? I wouldn’t be surprised. And would the UK still use EU regulations for crash and pedestrian safety if you left with no deal? That could create  a disastrously high entry cost for companies if not.

Svend > Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available 04/21/2020 at 12:07

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While many of the VW group cars share the same electricals, engines and platform, most if not everything else is very different with the platform lengthened or shortened, etc...

The cost of federalising a vehicle is astronomical. They have tighter tests on imported car than on home built ones, they don’t acknowledge tests than have been done already in the most part, each new engine needs crash tested, each new body needs crash tested, etc... In Japan they look at the EuroNCAP tests than tack on a few here and there depending on vehicle type.

In the U.K. we can import virtually any car from almost anywhere and as long as it gets inspected to see it conforms to certain standards or can be made to conform to certain standards, it will have it’s emissions done and a tax base declared and you can register the car with the DVLC (U.K. DMV).

We’d still use the same E.U. laws in most regards to everything, they are merely being re-written into U.K. law. Think of it as getting a divorce, your simply changing your surname back to your maiden name.

Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available > Svend 04/21/2020 at 12:29

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Hmm so it would just be the NCAP tests but you wouldn ’t have any say in what tests are done? I guess you would just do any yourself if you wanted. I’m really surprised that each new engine needs crash testing though. And meanwhile you could import just about anything with minimal modifications.

Most automakers these days use different versions of the same platform for their different brands to make a profit at all, but the Big 3 are notorious for minimal differences between platform mates. Just look at this:

I also thought to mention that the Ford Five Hundred was the predecessor to the Fusion that came before the Mondeo/Fusion and replaced the old Taurus. This was the last Ford to come as a station wagon in the United States, and even then it was disguised as an SUV and called the Freestyle. They still sold the Crown Victoria in much greater numbers alongside this. Man this naming scheme and globalization is confusing.

And this whole car overlapped with the nearly identical looking Ford Mondeo. I’m still so confused as to why these nearly identical cars were separate after they had proven the world would buy a global Focus.

Svend > Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available 04/21/2020 at 15:10

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No, because EuroNCAP tests aren’t E.U. law. That’s where many outside of Europe get confused. Each country has it’s own laws, but then there are some laws within the E.U. (European Union) that cover those member states.

Europe and the E.U. are two separate things. The E.U. is a group of countries that have aligned themselves in trade, law, etc... within Europe.

Just like there is U.K. law, then England, Wales, Northern Ireland and Scotland have their own laws.

The EuroNCAP tests is a Europe thing.

Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available > Svend 04/21/2020 at 15:39

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Ah I had thought that the EU used the NCAP stuff as some sort of standardized legalization of cars for use in the member country . So if the EU doesn’t do the NCAP, who does? 

Automobiles that comply with multiple countries’ regulations do facilitate trade so I thought the EU ran it . As I understand it the EU’s job is to make travel, trade, and agreements between countries more seamless not actually dictate what can be done inside borders.

Svend > Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available 04/21/2020 at 15:53

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The E.U.. Europe, etc... is complicated to outside people looking in but explains the E.U., Europe, EEA, Eurozone, Shengen Zone, etc...

I’ve got to head off to work for a few hours so I’ll wish you a good evening.